60. My Maine Birth: Mid-week Midwife Episode with Julie Havener
Julie Havener: 0:00
The exciting thing about midwifery care in Maine or one of the most exciting things I guess Chris and I would agree on this that we love babies.
Julie Havener: 0:10
Babies are awesome, but really what we love most is being with families.
Julie Havener: 0:19
I get to know people in such a different way, people in such a different way.
Julie Havener: 0:27
Seeing families transition into a bigger family and watching, as you know, the pregnancy progresses and the challenges that come with that and the excitement and the um, just the journey of it all is so incredible to sit with and to listen to and help, guide or give information to families on that journey.
Julie Havener: 0:49
And really cool is being at a birth and when someone giving birth is just like can't do it or you know that doubt, that sort of transition that can happen and does happen for most people, and then watching them do it anyway, you know, and like being with them inside of that space and being willing to be with the intensity it's, it's, it's rugged, you know it's, it's a big piece of work and still be so excited and feel so honored to be with people, whoever's there the children, the partners, the mothers, the grandmothers, you know, whatever, whoever those people are, just holding space for them, holding a safe space. That's our job, you know, to monitor things as we plan. With each family it's a little different, but it's really it feels like a big gift to be a midwife.
Angela : 1:43
I'm Angela and you're listening to my Maine Birth, a space where we share the real life stories of families and their unique birth experiences in the beautiful state of Maine. From our state's biggest hospitals to birth center births and home births, every birth story deserves to be heard and celebrated. From the first feelings of pregnancy to the first cry of your newborn, we explore the journey of childbirth in all of its beauty, intensity and emotion. Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother or simply interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you. Welcome to a midweek midwife edition of my Maine Birth.
Angela : 2:30
Today's guest is Julie Havener. She is a certified professional midwife here in the central Maine area and she is here to share her own birth stories and about the support that she offers to families here in Maine. If you would like to contact Julie to set up a free consultation, you can email her. Her email address is mail at juliehavenercom and I have all of that linked over in the show notes. Hi, julie, welcome to my Maine Birth. Hello, hi. So first to start, will you share a little bit about who you are and the support you offer to families here in Maine?
Julie Havener: 3:17
Yes, my name is Julie Havener and I've lived in Maine for 27 years now and I work as a midwife and out of hospital settings, either in the home and also at Holly number seven birth center. And I grew up in Portland, oregon and went to college in Washington state, evergreen state college college in Washington State, evergreen State College and that's where I met my husband of pretty much 27 years. He grew up here and that's how we ended up in Maine.
Angela : 3:54
Amazing. Now we're going to be talking about your journey to midwifery and also about your own birth stories, as they intertwine. So, to get started, I'm wondering when did you first become interested in midwifery?
Julie Havener: 4:09
So Evergreen State College is sort of a Olympia. Washington is a pretty groovy town and there's a lot of support for out-of-hospital births there, mostly home births. There was, for a short time, a birth center and so when I was in college I knew that I wanted to do some sort of women's healthcare. So I studied herbs, I did a couple of different courses related to healthcare and women's studies and I think it was my junior year and I still wasn't sure what direction I was going to go with healthcare. But I was exploring my options. And in my third year I believe it was that year a good friend of mine invited me to go visit a good friend of his who had just had a baby her house and she had just had the baby that morning and it was the evening and there were candles lit and she was in bed breastfeeding her brand new baby. And I just didn't know anything about that and I couldn't believe it, like I was just in awe of the whole feeling of the room and all of it. So that was the moment that I decided to pursue, you know, exploring that like what was home birth and how do you become a midwife, and all these things. And, funny enough, rainshine, who had her baby's name is Baji, now lives in the Belfast area, belfast, maine. So I see her like at the Common Ground Fair and you know, kind of out in the world it's fun to run into her and remember that moment.
Julie Havener: 5:47
And my I grew up also on my stepdad since I was 16. He was high risk OB doing genetic testing and such things for families, and so I was aware of that field kind of through exposure, you know, being around my stepdad Jerry. So I decided I wanted to. At first I was like, well, if I'm going to be on call and he didn't know what that feels like so I'm going to take a doula course. And I took it at Seattle midwifery school and it was with Penny Simpkin, who is a well-known author and in the birth working world. She's, I'm sure, retired by now. So I did the doula course and then I did another course at Seattle midwifery school and I was just starting to get rolling because I felt like I needed to not invest the huge amount of time it takes to become a midwife Unless I really felt like being on call was a lifestyle I could handle and so I thought doing some doula work first made sense. So I did those courses and then around the time that was happening, or a little earlier, I had met John, who's now my husband. We knew each other through the years but we started to hang out and he was like I think I want to go to Maine for the summer and work, and do you want to come? And I was like where, like I think I want to go to Maine for the summer and work, and do you want to come? And I was like where, like I don't even know where that is on the map barely. But I said yes, and we came out here to Northeast Harbor where he grew up and we well obviously haven't left. But when I got out here I was pursuing.
Julie Havener: 7:22
I went to the hospital here in Bar Harbor and sort of put myself out there as a doula. And they didn't quite know what that was at that point, 27 years ago was kind of like why, so tell us more about that. And then I started attending. Midwives of Maine was a group then. That was a self-regulatory group for the home birth midwives in Maine. There was about 25 of us at the time. But I started going to those meetings even before I started really getting into the training to be a midwife. So that's kind of how that started. And then I did spend time like, do I want to be a nurse midwife, do I want to be a home birth midwife? And I wasn't sure.
Julie Havener: 8:04
And as I was moving out here, actually sure, and as I was moving out here, actually the week I was moving out here, I had my dearest friend, pretty much the closest thing to a sister to me, amara do, with her second baby in Olympia. She was gonna have a home birth with a tub water birth. And then my brother and his wife were also due to have a baby in Milwaukee, wisconsin, and they invited me to be at that birth. They were having a hospital birth and so I attended Amara's birth and then, pretty much that night, got a call that my sister-in-law was starting to have a contraction. So I got on an airplane and I flew out there. So in three days, in a span of three days, I was at a home birth and a hospital birth and they were both beautiful births but I that was sort of a deciding factor for me. You know, just I kind of that was the moment that I decided to move towards being a home birth midwife and again, my sister-in-law's birth was amazing. It's just. It's just different. So and I'm not, I'm certainly not against hospitals, believe in you know, both choices are super important and where a person feels really safe is where they're going to allow their baby to come through. So some people that's hospital and some people that's home.
Julie Havener: 9:35
So when we got here, I was looking into my options and at that point I had decided I wanted to be an apprentice, trained midwife, and I have always learned better by doing alongside studying and doing some schoolwork, going to. There was a school at one point in Bridgeton Maine that I attended some courses there. So when we moved here we were planning on being here for the summer and then possibly going back to the West Coast. And then we found out we were pregnant with my daughter, wilds, and at that point I had been looking into training, but it became clear that I would need to pause. I was really really sick, um, my first trimester with wilds, I couldn't really do much.
Julie Havener: 10:19
So, and at the same time, my friend Anna Duran she is also from Portland, oregon we have mutual friends, which is kind of funny and she was looking into pursuing midwifery and so, and then she was also pregnant. So we're like, well, let's do like a study group together and sort of pursue our options as far as training goes kind of side by side. So she got in contact with Jill Breen, who is now mostly retired midwife, and then I found out there was an apprenticeship open in Belfast with Elliot, daniels and Christiane, and so that was like when our girls were about two we both kind of jumped into like interviewing and applying for those apprenticeships because I didn't really feel like I wanted to leave Wilds. It actually felt a little early for me, but that's when an apprenticeship opened in Belfast, because that can take up three or four years for a practice to need that student and I didn't want to wait that much longer. So my husband and I decided it was a good choice to go ahead and start my training, even though Wilds was a little younger than I had planned on. So Anna also started her training with Jill at the same time. So I went down and interviewed with Ellie and Chris, I did an application and then they asked me to join, which was great. You know, it's an hour and 15 minutes away, so I did a lot of driving but it was a fairly busy practice in Maine, so it felt it was exciting. It was really exciting.
Julie Havener: 11:52
Now to back up when I did get pregnant I asked everyone I had only I had only been here for I don't know four months, maybe three months.
Julie Havener: 12:01
I was just getting friends and I asked people like who's who's the midwife?
Julie Havener: 12:05
And everyone said Pam Stewart and she lives in Harrington and she's one of my dearest friends now and so I found her and we worked with her through the pregnancy and then actually at the time that I went into labor, pam was with another family so she sent another midwife to be with me. But my three best friends from the West Coast all flew out when they found you used to be able to get standby tickets that you could get on any flight if there was room. So they all three or they had standby tickets and so when I went into labor they all flew across the country. And Amara the one that I had attended exactly a year ago from the birth of my daughter so our daughters share the same birthday she flew to Boston and drove with her one-year-old and made it to my birth, and so they really filled. You know, I I didn't know the midwife who was there and it. It didn't matter, because I had my husband and these best friends of mine, so that was pretty special.
Angela : 13:11
Oh my goodness, that is amazing that she made it from across the country.
Julie Havener: 13:16
I know it's always like wow and I caught. When I called her, she was like, oh, we're just starting to have a birthday party for Lana. And I was like, well, that's cool. Oh, we're just starting to have a birthday party for Lana and I was like, well, that's cool, but if you think you want to try to be at my birth, you probably need to just go now. And so she did. And yeah, she's awesome, we are still very, very, very close.
Angela : 13:43
So would you be able to tell me a little bit more about your actual birth experience with her and how that unfolded?
Julie Havener: 13:47
Sure, I saw well. So when I first started attending the midwives of Maine meetings, there, right when I was big and pregnant, there was a weekend workshop. All the midwives were getting together in Portland and staying in hotels and having different speakers come, and so I was there and I spent the night. And in that night I had a dream that this midwife that I met that day attended me, and so I saw her the next day and I told her. I said oh, it's so funny. I had this dream that you were with me and labor, and she's like oh, that's funny, who's your midwife? And I told her I am. And she's like oh, that's funny, who's your midwife? And I told her Pam. And she's like oh, you'll have a great birth and all these things. So as I was getting closer, like days away from birth, I had told I think I saw Pam on a Tuesday and I was like I'm having my baby this next weekend, so rest up, or whatever. I just had this hit that that's when that was going to happen. So that is what happened. I went into labor, she was with this other woman and she sent the woman that I dreamt about at the conference to be with me, and so she didn't know me by name it was Ellie Daniels and so when she came in she was like oh, it's you. So it was kind of a cool part of that story. And then she came I don't know, it was bedtime for sure so my contraction started maybe around noon. I sort of knew or felt like I was actually going into labor at dark, so it was probably it was May 3rd, so it was probably, I don't know, seven ish, six seven. And another friend of mine, um, named Rick, came with one of my friends from the West coast and he's like a massage guy, so he gave me this really strong foot massage. And that's when I was like I can't be in this, I can't be in this room anymore, like there's too much, too many people. I needed to sort of retreat and I gave birth.
Julie Havener: 15:48
We have a camp on long pond on Mount desert Island and so I gave birth there and I labored through the night. Everyone slept. I actually went out on the porch. It was full moon and the water was like glass. The looms were really singing and I actually did some tai chi. I had been doing tai chi at that time and I liked that alone time. I just like took, took that time for myself. And then I remember I laid down in bed and I told my husband I was like I'm gonna squeeze your hand and every I do you need to wake up and like help me, like be with me. And he did for a while and then the squeezing didn't work anymore, like he just was too tired it's pretty sound asleep. And then I really wanted a water birth so I had a.
Julie Havener: 16:41
At that time we were using horse troughs, like not a blow up tub, it's like a rigid farm type thing that horses and cows drink out of and all. There's a bunch of home births happening in my peer group at the time so we were all sharing like it was my turn to have the horse trough and then we took it to the next family and so so that was being passed around. I got in the tub probably around 730. And then I was fully dilated. No wait, it must have been six in the morning.
Julie Havener: 17:11
Sun was coming up and then I thought I had to go. Poop, which is the classic baby deep in the pelvis, probably need to push sign. So I got out of the tub and then the midwife didn't really know that I wanted to. She didn't. She wasn't part of my care and the birth plan. You know, um, she didn't really know that I really wanted a water birth. So anyway, I got up on the bed and I pushed for about 40 minutes and I was leaning against my husband and wilds came out. She was nine pounds two ounces, which is not that small, but it was great. And then, my friends, it was really sweet. It was just a beautiful birth and we still have that camp and it's kind of there's a lot of sweet feelings. We you know when we're there and Pam came and did my postpartum care and I had lots of people cooking us food we had, yeah, so it was a sweet time wow, so then how was your?
Julie Havener: 18:14
postpartum times it was good. Breastfeeding went well. I breastfed wilds for three years actually all of our friends, we were all doing that and we were all like on, your third birthday is when you will stop nursing. So since all of us were saying that like the kids would even say it to each other your birthday's coming, no more nursing. You know it was pretty cute and it worked. So that went well. I yeah, I don't know I was pretty sore. I, yeah, I don't know I was pretty sore. I sat on a very fluffy pillow for about a week but I think things went well. I it was a challenge for me a little bit, the transition into losing some independence, gaining a beautiful baby and new life. But also I did struggle with you know, having you know to nurse every two or all of it. It was just a big transition for me, but it was just part of what, you know, new moms, new parents, go through.
Angela : 19:17
Yeah, it is. So now, when she was two, was when you sort of decided to take that next step with your friends and move into an apprenticeship. What was sort of the next things that happened after that?
Julie Havener: 19:29
So to become a CPM, there was apprentice trained model and then there was this, you know, a schooling model. So for the people choosing the apprenticeship model there was there's like a big book of pages and pages and pages of skills that your preceptors, your teachers, you know, sign off on and you have to get it notarized and it took, and that takes, a good three years. I did it in a little more than three years. Some people it takes four years, but the practice was busy enough that I was able to do it in a little bit less time than some. So once that skills book is finished and complete, you then sign up for taking a skills like one-on-one in-person test. I had to drive I think I drove to Bridgeton to do that and someone, you bring your gear, you bring a pregnant person, so they'll say like, palpate the belly or do all these things, and then when you pass that then I had, I drove to Vermont to take a written test and when you pass that you become a certified professional midwife and that that is governed like it's all under the umbrella of NARM, north American Registry of Midwives. So it's all done through them and still, I'm currently a CPM and so every three years you have to redo your certification. So in those three years there's all sorts of continuing education that you need to fulfill a certain amount of hours. So all of us in Maine, all the midwives, are always doing that. And then now we're licensed. So that's a whole nother conversation.
Julie Havener: 21:11
So I took the apprenticeship. I would drive there, I would go to all the births. You know that was a three year. And then so you start. You have to do a certain amount of observes, then you do a certain amount of assists and then a certain amount of primaries, and so once you get those numbers done, that's a big part of it too is when you move on to the skills test and the written test. And I did all that.
Julie Havener: 21:31
And so in the beginning of my journey I think my family at first was kind of like come on, you know what about nurse midwifery? Because, like my brother's a surgeon and my grandfather was um or both orthopedic surgeons and so there's, and then my stepdad worked in the medical world, so there was a little bit of a maybe not a push, but support around the nurse midwifery option. But when I got pregnant with Wilds I started to sort of give more information, like to my stepdad. He was curious, like, tell me more about this, or I would leave my journals for him to read. And he just, you know, he became so supportive in a pretty special way. So supportive in a pretty special way, he, when I finished my training, I was aware, self-aware, that when I was at birth with my teachers I knew when I was the primary, I was like, oh, if that happens, they're here, you know, and I really wanted to lose that voice.
Julie Havener: 22:39
I mean, I always love having, I always have assistants at births and it's nice to have that. But it felt a little I need to define my my own feet. So my stepdad, he offered to, he said, pick a place to go study midwifery without your teachers, you know, and I will. Midwifery without your teachers, you know, and I will. That is a gift for you.
Julie Havener: 23:02
So I found a program that was in Jamaica and that's the place I picked and I was there for a month working in hospital there and I did like 33 births in that month and it was really good because I did a lot of births.
Julie Havener: 23:13
So the nurse, the nurses there, they're called nurses there the midwives there they also do the emergency room, their emergency room nurses and birth nurses, so sometimes they're not even there and I did some births by myself and I I just did a lot and I by the end of that training I those my teachers, who I love were not on my shoulder. You know like I was. I felt like, okay, I accomplished what I came here to do on so many different levels it was a really great experience. But so when I got back, anna, who was training with Jill Breen, and I started a practice together and then we were under supervision from the Midwives of Maine. That was kind of part of the rule when you are ready for your own practice, you would have a year of the midwives, the senior midwives, attending births to sort of make it a gentle transition, which is pretty cool, big for everybody to do it that way so they would attend as you as sort of the primary midwife and just there as to support sort of the roles, those final transitions.
Angela : 24:22
It's so interesting because side note Jill was my midwife, went for both of my.
Julie Havener: 24:26
Oh, that's cool. Yeah, she's great. I love Jill, we're buddies too, and I was so lucky too. So I practiced with Anna for a while and then Anna had to do some other things in life, so she then stopped being a midwife. And then that's when Chris and I so Chris is who I studied with Chris and Ellie, and then I kind of had Chris. They separated their practice and I kind of had to pick, and it was a difficult decision, but I decided to keep working with Chris and so we did a lot together and then, after Ana stopped being a midwife, I, chris and I, reentered our conversation of partnership.
Julie Havener: 25:06
And she lives in Monroe, I live in Northeast Harbor, it's an hour and 15 minutes away. But we figured out how, when she had babies in her area, I would assist her, and when I had babies in my area she would be my assistant. And we always had that partnership of collaborating and consulting. And so we've. It's pretty cool how long we successfully have been working together, because now she's the one that has Holly number seven. She has wanted a birth center for a really long time, and so she finally made that happen six years ago.
Angela : 25:40
Wow, that's amazing. So when did you find out you were pregnant for the second time?
Julie Havener: 25:46
Let's see, wild's was seven and a half. So seven and a half years later my husband built our house mostly, and so we were living with our in-laws, which was amazing. And at first we're like, let's wait till the house is done, until we have another baby. And then that you know there was so much to building a house, I was finally like, let's just, we're going to do this now. We agreed, and so I was also sick in that pregnancy not as bad bad continued doing midwifery. I didn't really take time off. And then, yeah, wilds was seven and a half and violet was due.
Julie Havener: 26:27
Violet is our other daughter, she's 19, due in april, and at that time our camp wasn't. It would have been nice to give birth there, but the camp wasn't. You know, you have to turn the water on it, it's not winterized. So it wasn't. It would have been nice to give birth there, but the camp wasn't. You know you have to turn the water on it, it's not winterized, so it wasn't ready. And so I gave birth to Violet, actually in the house where my husband grew up in northeast charter. So she was very different in many ways. Like she, she weighed seven and a half pounds. It was very noticeable in my body that this was going to be a smaller baby, which was interesting. I didn't know if neither we didn't know there if they were a girl or boy.
Julie Havener: 27:08
Throughout the pregnancy I suspected Violet. I thought maybe she was a boy. I knew Wilds was a girl, but so Violet. I woke up one morning and I went to the bathroom, got up at 8 30 and I had a contraction. April 5th, full moon, both girls born on the full moon, snowstorm, really big snowstorm. So violet was born yes, full moon, high tide, big snowstorm.
Julie Havener: 27:35
I woke up, great night's sleep and I was like, oh, I don't know, that's weird. I'm starting to feel crampy. But I never really had any show with either of them. Like bloody show there's lots of different names for it, but that's what I'll call it. So I was like, oh, I, you know, it's probably just warmup. I haven't had any of that second baby. It was really different having Violet. With so much knowledge about birth and prenatal care and all of that, I feel like I had a little anxiety in that pregnancy. I mean, I know I did like I knew. It's almost like I knew too much in a way. So it was a lot of unhooking knowledge and, you know, remembering trust in a different way. So started having contractions. I called Anna, who was going to be my midwife, and Pam, but Pam was out of town. So second birth Pam did not not make it to my birth and then Chris, my midwifery partner.
Julie Havener: 28:32
So she I called on and I was like I don't know, I'm sort of feeling crampy, but that's probably around 9 30. I called on and I was like I don't know, I'm sort of feeling crampy, but that was probably around nine, 30. I called her because I was starting to feel like maybe it was happening. And then I told Chris so I'm like I'm not really sure, but some maybe. And so Ana was like do you want me to turn around? I'm driving to blue Hill, it's really slick, like or do you want me to wait? And I was like, ah. She was like, yeah, nevermind, I'm just going to turn around. So she headed my way. Actually it must've been more like 930 or something, I don't even know what time. I was 10, 1030. Maybe.
Julie Havener: 29:05
She turned around and started heading to Northeast Harbor and I had a doula named Gail Grandgent, who I love to be with wilds. My mom was there. She was, she came out from Oregon and we were blowing up the tub. Because I was like this is probably it, and I was kind of walking around the house while I was painting downstairs with Gail, my mom was, like you know, running around and kind of like trying to be helpful, and I finally was like I think you need to sit down and here's a camera, just take pictures. That is your job. And cause I just needed more. It was a familiar feeling when I was getting that foot rub, but I was like I need the energy to shift in this room.
Julie Havener: 29:47
You know like at that point I retreated to a different room by myself, but I was able to sort of tell people what I needed and stay, you know, in with them, cause it was, things were all of a sudden kicking in, like I was like oh boy, like it was really starting to get intense. And then I remember I was doing like a child's pose, sort of on the ground, and I was just like, okay, I'm just, I'm giving it over, I'm giving, I'm letting go of this. Whatever is going to happen, it's just going to happen and I'm just going to do what comes next. And right then I had like the biggest contraction of all my labors and I was like, okay, all right. So I kind of got up and then I heard Anna arrive and I heard her scurrying around downstairs. I could hear her sterilize it, you know like getting her equipment ready.
Julie Havener: 30:40
And John. At that point I was on the ground and he was pushing on my back and I was like it just felt like a glacier was coming through. I was like I need you to push harder than more than that and it's like five or six or seven super hard contractions. And then Violet was born. So Anna like ran up.
Julie Havener: 31:02
I was like ah, my water broke because she was way downstairs and you know, I knew when water breaks, often a baby follows with the second, you know, not first baby, but and that's what happened, violet. I got up on the bed, I got on my hands and knees. Anna came in. Violet was halfway out. John caught her husband and, um, she did have the cord was around her neck, but we just, she did fine, she um. Sometimes when babies come out fast they look a little dark in their face and that takes a while to shift.
Julie Havener: 31:37
And I found out recently that Wilds, my older daughter, has been telling Violet most of her life that that's why we named her Violet. I know it's like okay, good to know, um, but I, we did have the tub, we were filling it. It wasn't full in time. I remember being sad about that and then. But wilds actually ended up getting in the tub and swimming in her little swimsuit and it was great. And then chris came. Chris missed it. She came, she didn't make it. So it was basically three hours ish from start to finish. Oh, my goodness, yeah. And then I took two weeks. No, I must've taken three weeks, it was not six weeks off. I didn't.
Julie Havener: 32:28
I was not a good role model in that moment for postpartum, because I had some clients that I like, really good friends of mine, that I really wanted to attend, and so Violet came. I think Violet was at about seven births and it just worked out Like Chris would come assist me and either she would hold Violet, you know, and I would do the births, and if I needed Chris, she would put Violet down. I did some births with Anna. Then we did have to put her down. We needed both sets of hands for one birth, that I remember. So Violet was in the other room, which was intense because I could hear her crying and I'd just stay really focused. So I worked with her at births for like a year and then I realized how tired I was and so I took some time off. Then I don't regret it, it was pretty cool being able to do that and then I had um, yeah, I took that year off.
Angela : 33:28
How did your career sort of look, moving forward, then after that, when you got back into it after that year?
Julie Havener: 33:33
Yeah, I say a year, it probably was more like six months. I stayed connected, I went to all the meetings, I so I didn't. I mean, I did take time off, but I stayed immersed. And then, when Violet was a year and a half, I guess I really yeah, so it was six months that I took off I just jumped right back in, but I didn't take her with me at that point.
Angela : 33:56
She's becoming a toddler? Yeah, exactly.
Julie Havener: 34:00
Yeah, yep.
Angela : 34:02
Wow, maria was a guest on my podcast recently Wild's friend and she shared some stories about just being friends with Wilds and going, you know, around to different births with you and just kind of other kids of you know, women who are birthing, and just how like an amazing experience it was to be exposed to that at a young age. So how do you feel sort of about, yeah, like being able to expose your daughters to that amazing world?
Julie Havener: 34:33
yeah, it is amazing, I think that for one like I to be in this field of work and having children like the partner is a huge role inside of that. And John he to this day tells me how proud he is of what I do and what a noble piece of work, you know, feel that all these things just super kind and sweet and he really has always been equal parent in our relationship and so that has always enabled me to be present in the way that I am. And Wilds and Violet I think that they, you know, they certainly have memories of me leaving and I don't think it was always their favorite thing. I know it wasn't. That is a challenge as a midwife to like prioritize family and be a midwife. It's very, if anything it's, challenging for most midwives and birth workers.
Julie Havener: 35:29
So wilds for a long time was like, you know, just so you know, when I have a baby, I'm gonna have a planned c-section and they're gonna wash the baby before they hand it to me, cause she saw Violet. You know Violet came out with vernix and I think Wilds was just like, oh, and that was her narrative for a while and I just would listen and say okay, no, and then it's changed. Now she's like, ah, probably I think I'd have a home birth if I have children. But it was kind of funny that little period of time where she's like I'm not doing that, that's, I'm not going to do what I just watched you do. You know, it was just like not interesting to her. I think they are proud of the work I do and they know a lot of people that I attended, like their peers, violet especially.
Angela : 36:18
So you and Chris work together attending home births. How did that evolve to opening a birth center and can you share about how you guys came up with the name?
Julie Havener: 36:28
So our midwifery practice was First Light Community Midwives, and that's how we still use that sum, but Holly number seven. The building used to be a fire station named Holly number seven and so we kept that name. We thought about a lot of different names and it just seems right. So it's really Chris's birth center. I work inside the birth center with her, but I didn't look for buildings and I didn't get any.
Julie Havener: 36:58
You know she did a lot, a lot, a lot of work. She had the whole building renovated. She picked out all the paint. She picked out everything. I helped her pick out the tubs. We picked out beautiful tubs. We love our tubs, but there's a lot to pick from. There's like a huge catalog of bathtubs. So it's really her business. I certainly help her think about things along the way. We've collaborated some, but it's really just her birth center. So and it's the first year you know we thought, oh, if we do 25, that'll be great or 30. And now, like last year, I think we did 80 births. So I am more part-time inside of the practice, so she really does the majority of the work there.
Angela : 37:42
Oh, and you guys also attend home births at the same time, is that right?
Julie Havener: 37:47
We do. Yeah, we do both. Yes, so people. So what happens is if people want to contact Holly, number seven, they do. They. You can go on and sign up for a free consult and then people come in and we take a half an hour and map out our care talking about our beliefs, you know, or how how the care works to her, the birth center, and then if they think it's a good fit, they go ahead and make an initial visit and then we go from there and start their care and then if people want a home birth, they still. We do those prenatals at the birth center and I personally do births on my own. I have some clients in my own and I do home visits for people and so that's separate from Chris and I do that, you know, anywhere from Blue Hill, mdi, some down east, and it works for a few reasons for us to work together, but then also I do my own clients too, reasons for us to work together, but then also I do my own clients too.
Angela : 38:50
Yeah, I'm sure just geographically speaking, there's really not a lot of care, especially north of Bangor.
Julie Havener: 38:54
Yeah, we have people coming from three hours away. We've had a few. So it's a big conversation of like all right. So when you start late, like if it's a first baby, it's usually like, yeah, we'll get you here early, most likely you have plenty of time even with a three hour drive. Second babies it might be more like all right, any sign of labor. Or some people will rent an Airbnb during that time. Or if they think they're in labor but aren't sure they'll come, you know, head towards Bangor and if things peter out they might stay in a hotel Like there's, we sort of help people navigate that. Yeah, we sort of help people navigate that.
Angela : 39:25
Yeah, you're right.
Julie Havener: 39:26
I mean especially people from North, from. It's challenging and birth. You know birth. Some of these smaller hospitals are closing their attorney wards or part of the hospital, so that's challenging as well.
Angela : 39:42
So, for those that might not know, would you be able to share a little bit more about what it's like when someone signs up for care at the birth center?
Julie Havener: 39:52
Yes. So when people come in for a free consult again, if they decide it's a good fit or we all decide it's a good fit they will go on our website and sign up. We have a way to sign up for what we call an initial prenatal. So when they come in for that, we go over some health history. We do offer getting lab work drawn. There's like a prenatal panel it's called of all sorts of different blood work tests and we can draw that in the birth center and we have relationship with the lab so we can do all those things. And that's with informed choice.
Julie Havener: 40:26
Most people do want to get the blood work done, but not everybody. And then we kind of establish when the due date is and like kind of figure out the pregnancy and what what's going on there. And then from then on we see people every four weeks until around 28 weeks, 30 weeks. We start seeing people closer together like three weeks, two weeks and then at the very end every week and very end being like 37 weeks plus. And we spend 15 minutes in our prenatals the initial visit is an hour and 15 minutes and also in the.
Julie Havener: 41:02
In the visits we talk a lot about the community standard of care. We offer up what is in the birth world like, what's happening, what are the tests that are offered, what are their options Like we really firmly we believe and know that our families are smart enough to really make their own decisions about you know what kind of if they want testing and what kind of testing. And then if we have a, you know, occasionally we might see something that's a little off and make a recommendation, and that's a conversation. And then we go from there and you know we offer the GDM testing at 28 weeks and we check for iron levels at that point and there's just certain tests along the way that again are offered in the community. So we want to make sure families know what that is and we, in the beginning of the first visit, we hand out a big folder full of all sorts of information and then, around.
Julie Havener: 41:58
So if it's a home birth, at 37 weeks we would do a home visit with the birth team, whoever's going to be there, and that would be including, like a sister or a mother or a photographer, or you know, whoever's going to be at the birth team, whoever's going to be there, and that would be including, like a sister or a mother or a photographer, or you know whoever's going to be at the birth. So we can everyone knows how to get there. We look at the supplies, we kind of talk about hopes and dreams, you know, our concerns, and kind of like our version of a birth plan, like hearing from the family, and then we talk about when to call and what that will look like and all those things. And then eventually someone will call us and tell us you know, I'm starting to have this, that or whatever their sensations are, and then, if it seems like it's early, we might say, well, that's great. You know, hydrate, eat, take a nap or a walk. You know, just follow your body and let's talk at lunchtime. And then we kind of just keep talking until it becomes obvious either to head to their home or to meet them at the birth center, depending on where they're giving birth. And then we go and we get to the birth place and we do kind of a initial intake. We offer doing vitals, we offer listening, you know, doing a sort of getting a baseline heart rate for the baby which is five or 10 minutes of listening with the Doppler and charting. We have a system to chart that so we can check in on the baby and how the baby's doing. And then really we just all sort of settle in and follow labor, basically Like if it's it's pretty obvious, like when it's time to rest or when it was time to really kind of get things going and and move more, and so we just were with the family until you know, eventually they need to push and that average for first baby is two hours.
Julie Havener: 43:41
We see longer and less and and eventually the baby will come and we pay close attention to both baby and further. The stability of that like how everybody's transitioning from the process and we're pretty quiet, like that first hour feels important to give the family space to be. You know, whatever that is for them. Some people do like to chat, but we really give space for for that family to just really bond and we do delayed cord clamping in our practice so we don't actually cut the cord if things are going well, like for an hour after the placenta is out. There's school research that babies still get stem cells from the placenta even when it's not in the body. So we put it in a chuck pad and kind of put it next to the parents and around an hour later is when we around.
Julie Havener: 44:41
Then the family's usually like I wonder how much the baby weighs, and it's kind of time to do the next thing-ish. So we can shorten the cord and weigh the baby and do a baby exam and then a shower is desired. Then we help with the shower and then we make the room. If someone's in the shower, the other midwife will be cleaning up the birthing room Because we have sheets and then we have a plastic sheet and then we have another set of sheets. So after the birth we take that top set off and the plastic and then we have a really nice, cozy, clean bed for people to get into and food happens.
Julie Havener: 45:20
And you know we don't we're usually with families or five hours average. If it's that the birth center and it's the middle of the night or there's a snowstorm, like we'll, you know, finish everything up and tuck everybody in and rest until it makes more sense for people to head home, and we don't, you know we don't leave or we don't have people leave. We need to see breastfeeding established. You know, the peeing has happened for the birthing person and the shower, if they want, and food and babies completely stable and like everyone's good. And then, yeah, so we have a little checklist before we send people home or before we leave. Then we are in contact. If it's a morning, we'll give a call in the evening, or if it's a morning, we'll give a call in the evening, or if it's at night, we'll call in the morning. We're still on call for people for a few days or pretty much always. But, um, so they then we come back to their house, day one, week one at the house and then week three and week six they come to the birth center and say, yes, the exciting thing about midwifery care.
Julie Havener: 46:28
I guess Chris and I would agree on this that we love babies, like babies are awesome, but really what we love most is being with families and seeing families trans transition into a bigger family and watching, as you know, a pregnancy progresses and the challenges that come with that and the excitement and the just the journey of it all is so incredible to sit with and to witness and to listen to and help guide or give information to families on that journey.
Julie Havener: 47:09
And really cool is being at a birth and when someone giving birth is just like so sure you know like can't do it or you know that doubt, that sort of transition that can happen and does happen, and then watching them do it anyway, you know, and like being with them inside of that space and being willing to be with the intensity it's, it's rugged, you know it's, it's a big piece of work and it's still be so excited and feel so honored to be with people all, all whoever's there the children, the partners, the mothers, the grandmothers, you know all whoever's there the children, the partners, the mothers, the grandmothers, you know, whatever, whoever those people are, just holding space for them, holding a safe space. That's our job, you know, to monitor things as we plan with each family. It's a little different but it's really. It feels like a big gift to be a midwife.
Angela : 48:04
Wow, that's really amazing to be a midwife. Wow, that's really amazing. So how many midwives are with Holly number seven? Now you guys also have student midwives right, yeah, we have.
Julie Havener: 48:14
So right now, chris and I are the senior midwives. And then we have Aura, who's from the Machias area, aura Moore. She just finished her training and became a certified professional midwife in the last month, very proud of her. She passed with flying colors, so she's very solid. We have Jenna, who is at the end of her. I think she just did her last birth that she needed to do as primary in order to she's very close to taking, you know, doing all the testing for the cpm. She's amazing.
Julie Havener: 48:49
So those two um chris and I are still working with, like you know how I talked about, that supervised phase. We're doing sort of a version of that until it's time to like, get everybody out of the nest. But there needs to be a transition, you know, for everybody. And then we have isa, who's a student right now, and then we have christy, who is pausing for a minute. She's been a solid student. She's in school but she's taking a little break from being a student and then she'll be coming back, which we're really happy about. And then we have another new student coming in January. So we kind of have a rotation that happens, but we're pretty excited that Aura and Jenna are.
Julie Havener: 49:34
We've been looking for and sort of handpicking or seeking out people to join Holly number seven as partners as time goes by, and so those two are saying yes to that and it's a big deal. You know, chris, I should say like what she's done and what she's created is really phenomenal and amazing and it's been a ton of hard work on her part and I'm just so proud of her for creating Holly No.7 and following her dream with that and the success of it is just been, I don't know, uplifting, I don't even know the word. It's just been really special to be part of. And then we also have an office manager, catherine, and then we have our bookkeeper LaCrescia, who's Chris's daughter. So it's quite a team of people.
Angela : 50:24
Oh fun, yeah, yeah, it's such a valuable thing to have in our community. It's really really amazing to have right here in Bangor, especially so close to the hospital too. So that's another really great perk of the birth center is it's literally five minutes from the hospital, from a NICU unit, from all the things Right, right.
Julie Havener: 50:46
Yeah, and I will say, like, if we end up transferring care for any reason, we obviously err on the side of caution. Our goal is healthy families, healthy babies, and so if we see something that's off and need to consider a transfer, how we do that is we discuss with the family and we make a decision, and then we call the hospital transfer center and then the doctor will call us back and we met. We just sort of lay out what's happening and what we're looking for, and then they, you know, say yes, come on in. They're super friendly. We have pretty great experiences with the MMC, and that's how that happens. And then, if we do transfer someone in labor, we go with them. One of us goes with them and follows through the birth, and so that's nice too for families.
Angela : 51:34
The transfers are seamless usually so yeah, and does that help people when they're first choosing their care with the birth center that might have maybe otherwise chosen a hospital birth, but you know they know reasons why they might otherwise chosen a hospital birth. But you know they know reasons why they might not want a hospital birth. But they're still like, okay, I'm going to go to the birth center Cause it's you know it gives people that peace of mind.
Julie Havener: 51:53
I think you know as they're like I do. I think so. I think that's true, and some people live 40 minutes from a hospital and they don't want a home birth. But you know, they don't really want to be in the hospital and it is. It's a great choice. We have a very different clientele than we had when we were only doing home births. It's just a different. It's like that in between wanting to not be in the hospital but not to be home. It's a great option for people.
Angela : 52:20
Yeah Well, thank you so much, Julie, for sharing your story today and about the birth center. It's been such a pleasure talking with you and I appreciate everything that you're doing here in the community so much.
Julie Havener: 52:34
Well, thank you for what you're doing in the community also.
Angela : 52:39
And that's the end of another episode of the my Main Birth podcast. Thank you for joining me and listening. I hope that the stories shared here have been inspiring or informative to all of my listeners. If you're looking to capture your own birth story or for doula support for your upcoming birth, head over to my website, mymainbirthcom and check out my packages. I'm a certified professional birth photographer and experienced doula, and I offer in-person services throughout the state of Maine, as well as virtual birth coaching worldwide.
Angela : 53:18
I want to invite you to grab my top free resource for newly pregnant moms. It's called 37 questions to ask your care provider Whether you've already established care or if you're in the process of interviewing new providers. This is for you. Not only are you going to get the questions to ask, but I also share how to assess their answers and some of the major red flags that you should be looking for. So go grab that. It's at mymainbirthcom slash download. Thank you again for tuning in and I look forward to bringing you more amazing birth stories. Don't forget to subscribe and leave me a review, and I'll see you back here again next week.