70. My Maine Birth: Natalie is Back to share her most recent Maine Birth Story

Natalie: 0:00

And then also reframing how we think of labor in the sense of like, oh, I just want to get it over with. Like, obviously, by the time you're in the third trimester, that's your general mindset. Anyway, you're like, I'm ready to be done. I want to get it over with. Get this baby out of me. My body is so tired, I'm so uncomfortable, I'm in so much pain, Just like you know, I want to be, I want to have it over and done with.

Natalie: 0:31

I was saying this just the other day. I was like I would have so many babies if I did not have to go through all the pregnancy to get there. Like, honestly, the labor and the birth part is so satisfying, especially when you do get to do it all naturally, like that elation of getting in, like whether it was natural or not, like my first one, with the intervention being on that other side of it, and like, whether it was natural or not, like my first one, with the intervention being on that other side of it and holding that baby in your arms and being like, oh my gosh, I like threw this thing with my body and I just labored however many hours to bring this child out into the world, and now I get to hold them in my arms like there's no feeling like it and it's just like elevated that much more. When you do it naturally, because there's nothing interfering with your natural hormones and it just man, the endorphins that hit your brain is wild.

Angela: 1:17

I'm Angela and you're listening to my Maine Birth, a space where we share the real life stories of families and their unique birth experiences in the beautiful state of Maine. From our state's biggest hospitals to birth center births and home births, every birth story deserves to be heard and celebrated. Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother or simply interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you. Today's birth story guest is Natalie. Natalie shared her first birth story in episode 65 of the podcast, so if you haven't had a chance to listen yet, go check that out for part one of her story. She is here today to share about her natural hospital birth and the importance of educating yourself about all things birth while you're pregnant, so you're able to advocate for the things you want during your birth.

Angela: 2:19

If you're hoping for a natural hospital birth, I want you to know that you're going against the grain. Natural birth is not what the hospitals specialize in. If you're planning for a natural hospital birth, you have to be prepared for quite a bit of advocating for yourself, with a healthy mix of ignoring some of the things that you may be told to do, while simultaneously tuning in and really following your intuition, regardless of what's happening around you. Remember, hospital policy is not law, and in my course, my Autonomous Birth, I have a full module where I cover your legal rights during birth and I break down the difference between hospital policy and your legal rights and why the word allowed doesn't belong in birth.

Angela: 3:17

I think this is a huge missing piece from most childbirth education programs today. What exactly are your legal rights? This comprehensive childbirth education programs today? What exactly are your legal rights? This comprehensive childbirth education course that I've created, my Autonomous Birth, is 11 modules and over 42 lessons, and it's available as a self-paced course with lifetime access, and it's included for families who sign up for my Sisterhood birth experience package, which is birth photography and doula support. I specialize in supporting natural hospital births, so if that's something you're interested in, head over to my website, mymainbirthcom, for all of the information. Now let's get to Natalie's story. Hi Natalie, welcome back to my Main Birth.

Natalie: 4:10

Hello, how are you doing? Doing well, things are going really well. The adjustment has been easier than we anticipated, actually.

Angela: 4:21

Well, that's good. So you shared your first birth story in episode 65 of the podcast and you went into labor the day after we recorded that episode. So to pick back up where we left off, will you share a little bit about when you found out you were pregnant for the second time and your thoughts in choosing your care?

Natalie: 4:43

So when we found out I actually had kind of like signs leading up to it before I actually found out that we were expecting and it was it was actually Raven who kind of cued me into it All of a sudden. She had been like super, super consistent in her schedule we were still nursing at the time and then all of a sudden, out of the blue, she starts becoming super, super attached to me and very clingy and like wanting to nurse or be on me all the time, and so I was like huh, that's, that's kind of weird. And then, maybe about a week later, I was just feeling a little off and it had kind of been in the back of my mind, cause I had heard, you know, sometimes babies pick up on their moms being pregnant before the mom even knows that they're pregnant. So it had kind of been in the back of my head. And then I was, when I woke up that morning, feeling off. We had leftover pregnancy tests from the first time, so I was like let me just take one, it's not going to cost anything, like we'll just see. And it was very, very positive, like very positive, no question about it, no possible indent line, like it was definitely a thing. So at that point I was like, okay, well, with all the changes that were happening, I've really needed to start weaning Raven, which was a good decision. We just hadn't done it earlier because it was so convenient, you know, to just if we didn't have a snack with us, she I could be her snack. So we hadn't done it up until that point.

Natalie: 6:09

But then we started the weaning process, which was kind of a lot. We tried to like gently wean her and that did not go. Well it was. It was too confusing to her. Like you know, people will say, oh, don't let her feed for as long or maybe just take away one feeding, and it was just. It was very clear that it confused her why sometimes she could nurse and other times she couldn't. So then eventually we kind of reached a point where I was like, well, let's just cut her off cold turkey during the day and see how that goes. Give her cow's milk instead anytime she like cause she knew the sign for milk, so anytime she'd sign for it, we'd just give her cow's milk during the day and we had one day of crankiness and extra snuggles, and then after that she was okay. I would still nurse her at night when she would wake up in the middle of the night to put her back to sleep.

Natalie: 6:59

But then in July so we found out in June in July I had to go to a wedding and she was supposed to come with me but she got really, really sick so she couldn't fly. So we were like, well, I guess it's time to quit night nursing too. So I was worried about how that would go, but it actually went really smoothly. Scott just gave her like an applesauce if she woke up in the middle of the night for her blood sugar, because she had the MCAD deficiency and so that would like keep her blood sugar up through the night. And then she just kind of adjusted to that and we haven't looked back. I was a little sore a couple of days but you know it went smoothly aside from that.

Natalie: 7:40

So in choosing our care this time we decided to go with traditional obstetrics because we were through a new insurance and they between that and like what we were making, we just couldn't afford midwifery care because it would all be out of pocket and we were still paying off the last time we had a baby. So we decided to go through that because on the insurance we were on, they would cover all of the care and originally my plan was to like do all my appointments at Eastern Maine and then transfer over to Mayo just to give birth, because that's where I gave birth last time and it was familiar. And then it was funny I was actually to some people I was threatening a free birth. I was like if I really hated it, you know, I'm just gonna just gonna say screw it, let's do it and stay home. But then I talked to more and more people and I had worked at Eastern Maine before and I have to say, like all the negatives that you might hear about Eastern Maine, one thing that you can consistently and definitively say in their favor is that their facilities, both their NICU and their labor and delivery facilities, are gorgeous, like they're beautiful, brand new, up to date. Also, the view out that window where you can see all the way down the Penobscot gorgeous. I'm not going to lie working there on the labor and delivery floor seeing that view specifically in the labor room and knowing that if you were to just opt for a C-section you get put in a recovery room, but it's a recovery room with no windows and so you don't get that view.

Natalie: 9:14

And so that was part of what started me down my path of learning more about birth, because that view I was like man, I don, I don't, I don't really know about this whole birth thing, but like if I give birth, it'd be pretty cool to have that. So I started doing more research and that was the first time with Raven. Um, well, actually that was even. That was way before. That was while I was still working at the hospital, which was before I got pregnant the first time. But it's just kind of funny how that started. And this is a full circle moment where I was like, you know, if I decide to just do it at Eastern Maine, then I will get to see that awesome view. That was like not a deciding factor, but definitely something that was, you know, again in in my head while I'm considering it.

Natalie: 10:00

But then, as we went along, I just I grew really attached to my doctor, claire Fagans. But then, as we went along, I just I grew really attached to my doctor, claire Faggins. She's really, really good at what she does. She's definitely very pro like your birth plan, like let the mom do it what she wants. And it was funny because there were a couple of times that she would ask me, you know, for example, she was like so, do you, are you interested in an induction? And when I said no, she was like, ok, good, because in my opinion those usually make for longer and more painful labor. So it was kind of funny how she would approach certain things where she clearly didn't want to sway me one way or the other. But then, like when I confirmed that, like oh yeah, I want to go with as little intervention as possible, she was fully in support of that. So that was great. And I got to work with a couple of the other doctors who were there as well, like cause, you know, you have a couple of visits with them when your doctor isn't available. So I kind of knew the team more. And with Mayo I didn't really know any of the doctors that were there.

Natalie: 10:59

And then, in addition to that, my parents moved into Bangor and so it would be really easy for us. When our initial plans for what we were going to do with Raven when it came time to give birth kind of fell through, we talked to my parents about it and they were like, yeah, absolutely, we'll take her, no problem, We'll make it happen, basically, and they live in Bangor, so it made more sense for us to go to the hospital that's in Bangor, because then we can just drop her off and be you know 10 minutes away, as opposed to either them having to come here, which is 30 minutes from their house, and then us driving another 25 minutes to the hospital, or we drive you know 30 minutes in the wrong direction and then have to drive back out all the way to Dover for almost an hour, like that didn't make any sense. So, and then again, I was familiar with the doctors and then I was also just more well educated this time around, more confident in what I wanted, more comfortable advocating for myself, and so part of it was just I had the confidence in myself and also Scott that we would be able to advocate for ourselves when it came down to it. And then, of course, you know, this time I actually wrote up a birth plan. I actually wrote up two birth plans, or technically three, I'll say two and a half. So one was my ideal birth plan, like how I want everything to go, if I can have my way entirely. The second, like half birth plan that I'll call it, is if certain medical things were to arise and I would need interventions. These are the interventions I prefer over other interventions. And then the third one was in case of C-section. These are all my preferences around a C-section, which fortunately did not come to that, but you know it was.

Natalie: 12:46

It was really nice and like super peaceful, having that prepared and being in that nice mental headspace of like if something were to change, that we're prepared for that change. And obviously, like you can't fully prepare for every single possible thing that might potentially happen giving birth, like it's crazy all this that can happen through pregnancy and birth. But you can be pretty prepared and then, just like you, you prepare as much as you can and then you hold that loosely where you're like so long as I advocate for myself and my preferences and then if those preferences aren't able to be met, I'm at least comfortable with the fact that I've done everything that I can on my end to like support that birth. And that was the same with Ravens, even though I didn't have a hospital plan, and like there are definitely things that I would have changed. Like I would have made it really clear no students, please. And thank you. Is that how I ended up with a spinal fluid leak. But aside from that, you know like I did my best to have the home birth, that I wanted to have the all natural birth and then, when it came down to it, my body was just exhausted and I needed those interventions. But I don't have any regret or remorse about going to the hospital and getting those interventions because I know that I did everything I could to like do it my way first, basically, and in the end you know, healthy, happy baby. So that was good and we avoided a C-section. That was. That was a big, a big check mark, which was exciting, but yeah, so this time around was really different. It was also helpful that we were going to appointments in Bangor, because then I would just like ride in with Scott in the morning and I always scheduled my appointment like right after he started work, because his his work is right up the road from the hospital, like not even five minutes. So I, um, I dropped him off at work and then drive over to the hospital and get in my appointment. Raven would like run around to the waiting room a couple times before they call us in and then we go in, have the appointment, leave.

Natalie: 14:49

I will say a huge difference between obstetric care and midwifery care is the amount of time that an appointment takes. When you meet with the midwives, they are checking in on you and like every aspect of your life, even if you don't necessarily have questions off the top of your head that you came prepared with. They're prepared to either like prompt you into information or just like educate you in general, and they'll ask you a million questions like how are you doing? What's your life like? What are your living circumstances like what? What are your mood? What is your mood generally, day-to-day? Like lots of ups and downs, pretty consistent. You know how sick are you? Stuff like that, um, and they're just like constantly checking in on things that you wouldn't even necessarily think to ask about, um, and they really, really take a lot of. So usually appointments with the midwives would take an hour and that's without even trying right, whereas like obstetric care, it can take that long.

Natalie: 15:51

If you, if you prompt the doctor for a lot of information and a lot of education, they can absolutely fill that time space. But if you're not prompting them, they're going to come in and be like okay, how are you doing? And you're like I'm good, and they're like, okay, let's take a listen to the baby, they listen. They're like, okay, baby sounds good. Do you have any questions for me? And you're like, no, if you don't have any, or if you do, you ask the one to two questions, they give you a very succinct answer and then sometimes they'll say, okay, we need to schedule you for these labs, so I'm going to put that order through what day works better, whatever? And then they're out of there and it can be as short as like 15 minutes that they're in and back out, like some.

Natalie: 16:35

Some appointments do take a little bit longer if you're asking them questions with a lot of details and stuff, but if you're coming into it either like me or on the polar opposite of me, where you know, in my case I was very comfortable with the amount of education that I had. I didn't have any particular questions that I needed a lot of additional information on because of all the education I'd done the first time and then re-education that I did this time because I invested in a birth course and I'm super happy with it because it gives you lifetime access. So this time I can just keep reusing this same birth course as like a refresher every time. Or if you're on the opposite end of that, which I've noticed a lot of people are where they really don't know anything about birth. They don't know what it's supposed to be like. They just kind of know that, like, this is the expert and they're going to tell me what to do, so they don't even know what questions they should be asking going into the appointment. So that's why I tell, like all of my single girlfriends who are not interested in having babies right now, I'm like look, I know like birth stuff is scary and intimidating and you hate hearing about it because it freaks you out. But, like, when it comes time and you're pregnant, educate yourself, take the time and learn these things, because it'll A it'll save you trips to the emergency room, like with my first pregnancy, I did two separate trips for the same symptom, because the first time we sat there for five hours, didn't get a room, didn't get told what was wrong, so we gave up and left.

Natalie: 17:57

And then I woke up in the middle of the night with it was severe chest pain, and you know, chest pain isn't something that you want to take chances with, because it could be something very, very serious. And so I woke up in the middle of the night again with like super severe chest pain. So we went back to the emergency room, sat there for seven hours, finally got into a room. They determined it wasn't a heart attack and it wasn't a blood clot. They gave me extra, extra strength, tylenol, didn't tell me what was wrong and sent me home. So I was like, well, that was a great waste of time and money because I still don't know what's wrong.

Natalie: 18:29

And then we went to our next appointment, which was that same week, and we told the midwives just like, started to say I've been experiencing chest pain and they go oh, here, let me feel your rib cage. And they did. And they were like yep, the cartilage in your chest is swollen and that's very typical. That can happen with a lot of pregnancies that the cartilage in between your ribs can swell and that'll cause severe chest pain. I didn't even know that that was a symptom. I didn't even know that that was a thing, of course, when I'm going on my way to the emergency room, scott did a quick Google search and was like emergency room. Scott did a quick Google search and was like huh, maybe it's this pregnancy symptom and I'm like, yeah, but you know, just in case I'm dying, we want to go. So we made sure I wasn't dying and they still didn't figure it out. But Scott figured it out with a Google search and the midwives figured it out with a quick like press press on the chest. So you know stuff like that.

Natalie: 19:19

You really want to educate yourself because, especially if you're going through the hospital, they're not going to educate you. They're just not like they don't have the time for the most part, like a lot of. It's not like the doctor necessarily doesn't care about you or wants to rush through your appointments, but generally hospital policy is to book appointments 15 minutes apart. So they have a reason that they're like going in there as fast and efficiently as possible and getting back out and you know they're just. They're just not going to take the time to teach you about all of these things. And another thing that I really, really encourage, whether this is your first pregnancy or your fifth pregnancy, is practicing mindfulness, because that's what made the biggest difference in this birth experience for me than my first birth experience the birth class that I bought. It really teaches you how to like all these different ways to reframe your thinking around pregnancy and around birth and around labor itself pregnancy and around birth and around labor itself. That just helps you genuinely have a pain-free birth.

Natalie: 20:30

And I would say that mine was pain-free. Like Scott might kind of scoff at that if I say it to him because he's going to be like are you sure you? You were kind of acting like you were in pain sometimes, but I would say that it wasn't like painful in the traditional sense of how we think of pain, it was just intense. I was experiencing some serious intensity, especially towards the end. He said um, he said he thought I was gonna throw something at the nurse when I was a transition, but like it was all this intensity, it wasn't like excruciating pain, whereas the first time I was definitely feeling the pain of the contractions and like allowing my brain to register it as pain.

Natalie: 21:10

And so this time around, well, first of all, they teach you how to practice reframing in the sense of like teaching your body to endure discomfort. So they do like the ice cube method. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but like where you take an ice cube and you hold it for extended periods of time and you just train your brain to not think about how cold and how painful it is in your hand. You don't go longer than two minutes, like we're not trying to damage skin here, but like you know, you do it enough to be uncomfortable and to teach your brain to last that long through things. And if your labor is going well, then you shouldn't need to last longer than two minutes at a time and then you get a break and then you get to go again. And that was just so helpful.

Natalie: 21:57

And then also reframing how we think of labor in the sense of like, oh, I just want to get it over with. Like obviously, by the time you're in the third trimester, that's your general mindset. Anyway, you're like I'm ready to be done. I want to get it over with. Get this baby out of me. My body is so tired, I'm so uncomfortable, I'm in so much pain, just like you know I want to be. I want to have it over and done with.

Natalie: 22:20

I was saying this just the other day.

Natalie: 22:22

I was like I would have so many babies if I did not have to go through all the pregnancy to get there.

Natalie: 22:27

Like, honestly, the labor and the birth part is so satisfying, especially when you do get to do it all naturally, like that elation of getting and like whether it was natural or not, like my first one, with the intervention being on that other side of it and holding that baby in your arms, and being not like my first one, with the intervention being on that other side of it and holding that baby in your arms, and being like, oh my gosh, I like through this thing with my body and I just labored, however many hours to bring this child out into the world and now I get to hold them in my arms, like there's no feeling like it and it's just like elevated that much more. When you do it naturally, because there's nothing interfering with your natural hormones and it just man, the endorphins that hit your brain is wild. You know I had been with him, I labored for I think we determined it was like 20, 28 hours, something like that, like just over a day basically.

Angela: 23:27

So, going back to those last few weeks of your pregnancy, how are you feeling and how did things pick up after our last podcast interview?

Natalie: 23:38

Yeah. So the week before that I would say Before that I would say so the 28 or, sorry, 38 weeks. I was so sure I was going into labor because you hear sometimes and I've done more research on this and it seems like it's not totally true you hear a lot that like you'll go into labor sooner, typically with further pregnancies, but I think that's not always the case. I think labor tends to be shorter and more efficient with further pregnancies, but I think that's not always the case. I think labor tends to be shorter and more efficient with further pregnancies, but I don't think pregnancy itself tends to necessarily be definitively shorter, like some people actually end up going longer. It's just baby to baby. Different babies are ready to come out at different times. But, like the labor, your body knows what it's doing, so it's more efficient. But 38 weeks I had all the signs and symptoms of like my body is prepping to go into labor, like he kept dropping every day to the point where I was. I was joking with people. I was like he can't go any lower without falling out. But he did. He kept like scooching lower slowly without actually doing anything. I, when I got my GBS swab I got it late because I there was that huge windstorm and so I missed the 36 week appointment where I was supposed to have it done. And so they just did it at my 38 week appointment. Fortunately it was negative. But while they were in there I was like might as well do a cervical check, because we're close enough, you know. And they were like, wow, you know your cervix is soft, you're almost one centimeter. And I was like, oh yes, this is happening, like it's happening soon, he's coming. You know, I had all like the random signs and symptoms of more bowel movements, lightning, all of this stuff that like you Google early signs and symptoms of labor and they're like now these symptoms could mean he's coming tomorrow or it could mean he's coming in three more weeks. But like here are some early signs that your body's prepping for labor had all of those things. I was so, so, so certain he was coming sometime.

Natalie: 25:32

That week Didn't happen. Hit 39 weeks and everything went away, like my body just chilled out. He didn't drop any lower. I had a lot of discomfort in my pelvis because of how low he was. But I had a lot of discomfort in my pelvis because of how low he was, but he didn't go any lower than he already was, and then like everything just kind of returned to normal, my symptoms, balanced out, whatever. And so then all of week 39, I was like nevermind, I'm going to be pregnant forever, he's never leaving my body, he's just in there. He was real comfy at 39 weeks.

Natalie: 26:03

So I was like towards the end of that week that was the 40 week mark, with Saturday, and I was like, well, you know, might as well tell my first birth story while I still have the chance, like while he's still in there, before this one kind of overtakes the first one. I wanted to tell it while it was still like fresh-ish in my brain, and so I signed up to do the podcast. And then that it was actually earlier that day I went for a really long walk, like if anyone is familiar with the Bangor City Forest, originally I was supposed to go with some of my girlfriends and then, one by one, all of them was like, oh, I forgot, I have this thing, or I meant to tell you I have, I'm not able to make it. So then it was like just me, and like, well, I don't really want to walk the Bangor City Forest heavily pregnant in the wintertime by myself. So I messaged my dad, who's a big outdoorsman, and I was like, hey, dad want to go for a walk with me today. And he's like, yeah, sure, so he's again an avid outdoorsman in great shape. And so we started walking and then we just kept walking and then I was like, oh hey, we're like on the outer loop of the Bangor Forest, I guess we keep going. And he's like, okay, fine, with me. I'm honestly surprised that I managed to do that whole loop nine months pregnant, especially because I had not been as on top of my walking as I had been when I was pregnant with Raven.

Natalie: 27:29

But I did. I did the whole. I think it was like the Brown loop, whatever one the letters are on. We were following the letters, but we did like the whole exterior loop, which is, I think, just over five miles of walking on snow and ice. And on one particular uphill I wasn't paying attention and I actually like slipped and landed on my hip. It was embarrassing, but because it was so cold I couldn't really tell, but I felt like a little pop and a gush of fluid. So I texted God and I was like either my water just broke or I peed myself, which is pretty sure it was the latter. And then that was when we did our call and because I was like, because I called the hospital and they were like, well, you know, switch to something dry, see if fluid is still leaking and then, if it's still leaking, come in and get checked, and I was like, okay, that sounds good. So it was in the period of waiting that I called that we had our first recording. I call it that we had our first recording and I kind of felt slightly crampy, but not really I was ignoring it.

Natalie: 28:35

I had had prodromal labor twice with him, just like I had had with her. So again, for people who may not have heard the first one and or are not familiar with what prodromal labor is, it's essentially false labor, but it is not the same as Braxton Hicks. Braxton Hicks are super inconsistent, generally not painful. Usually if you drink water or sit down or change positions, they'll go away or at least kind of like give up. But prodromal labor is very consistent. Contractions they can be painful, they're always uncomfortable. They don't go away when you drink water or change positions, but they're generally like three to five minutes apart, lasting for about 30 seconds a piece and they just never get more intense or closer together. So it's a super rude fake out, especially late in pregnancy.

Natalie: 29:24

Basically, and it happened twice with Raven before I went into labor, also around the 38 week mark, and with him it was around the 38 week mark, and with him it was around the 38 week mark that I was having prodromal labor. I was like I'm certain he's going to come and then he didn't. So, like me feeling mild contractions, I was just ignoring them. I'm like forget it, it's nothing, who cares, like it's just prodromal labor again, most likely whatever. So I was ignoring it, but I did continue to leak some fluid, I don't know, like I mean, in pregnancy you produce a lot of fluid, so who knows what it was. Because we did end up going to the hospital and getting checked and they were like it's not amniotic fluid and I said okay, cool, and they said you are having some contractions though. So if you really want to, you can stay. And I was like no, I'm okay and went home.

Natalie: 30:14

But we were, you know, we went and because we were already in the Bangor area, we went, we had dinner with my parents and then we were kind of like getting Raven ready for bed and we were gonna pop her in the car and drive back home, which she usually falls asleep and then we just stick her in in her bed at that point. But then Scott and I talked about it and I was like, well, they are, you know, intense-er-ish, so I can kind of like notice them now, but it's still really nothing. But maybe we should just stay at my parents' house just in case, so we don't have to like uproot Raven in the middle of the night, if that's what happens, if I like enter actual labor. So it's good thing we did that, because at 2 AM I woke up and couldn't really sleep through the contractions anymore. I was more like sleeping in between contractions. So, and of course I was impatient for this baby anyway, so I got up and I timed them for a good 30 minutes and then I was like, yeah, these are especially because I went to use the bathroom, which you know the a lot of people like to call the toilet, the dilation station, you know. So when I was on the toilet I was like, oh, these are, these are pretty real, pretty real feeling like not like the prodromal labor, definitely, these are contraction contractions. And so I was like maybe we should just go to the hospital just in case. So I called them and they were like, oh yeah, you should come in with how far apart they were, because they were much closer together. Now they were like maybe two to three minutes apart and they had been like that for probably an hour because I had been awake before I actually got up and started timing them. And I've been timing them for about half an hour. When I called the hospital it was 15 minutes by or 45 minutes by the time I actually got a hold of someone because their whole system was down. So that was fun. But thank goodness I had the foresight to like I was on top of things this pregnancy.

Natalie: 32:00

As a part of my preparation, I printed out a birth plan, multiple versions of it. One just had cute little icons to make it really easy for people to understand what I wanted, and then one was like more in depth on paper, and I had two copies of the icon, one printed out because I wanted one by my bed and then one like on my door, and I had the more detailed one to give to the nurse when we got there. And then I had also purchased. I like to call them bribes for the nurses. They were genuine like thank you gifts, cause I know how underappreciated and overworked nurses are a lot of times, um. So I did genuinely want to bring a token of appreciation, but at the same time it also doubled as a bribe, where I was like if I bring them snacks, they'll be more likely to acquiesce to my request. So I brought them kind bars and Starburst because I was like this will get like the salty chocolatey people and also the fruity sweet people, and you know it's a nice little energy snack and we bought them from Sam's Club. So I was like there will be plenty. If there's a shift change, people will stop. Like there will be plenty. If there's a shift change, people will stop enough.

Natalie: 33:16

So, yeah, thank goodness I had printed out those birth plans though, because, um a, it was a nice little cheat sheet for Scott to look at, because he's not able to look at my chart. But also their entire system was down when we went into the hospital so they actually didn't have access to my chart, everything digital. They had to do it all manually. So that was really good because I had some specific requests in my chart, like no students and no male providers, obviously short of an emergency. If I need a surgery and the only one on call is a male obstetrician, then he's going to do the surgery. But, like, short of that, if it's just for checks and stuff, no students, no male doctors. Thank you, I don't want anyone extra in my room and I just want to be like I want to be as comfortable as possible and I just don't want to worry about that.

Natalie: 34:00

And um, no hate to students or anything, but it is really awkward when they're there Cause because the doctor will come in and do you know, a pretty invasive check because they're checking your cervix. They have to get all up in there and the student is just standing there staring at you and you're just like, hey, what's up? This is never seen you before in my life. But you know, at least with the doctor, even if it's not someone you've met before, at least they're doing something. So it takes away from some of the awkwardness, but like students, they're just, they're just staying in there. So it takes away from some of the awkwardness, but like students, they're just, they're just staying in there.

Natalie: 34:31

So fortunately I had that in my birth plan, especially because the first time they actually did bring a student in by accident because the nurse was checking my temperature. And they knocked on the door and were like hey, dr Rinaldi, I have a student with me, can I come in? And I couldn't answer because I had the thermometer in my mouth. So I'm like. And then they came in. Fortunately it wasn't for anything, she was just like just wanted to introduce myself. Let you know that I'm I'm the one who will be around. And then, like she peaced out, basically, and then I told the nurse I was like I know she already brought the student in, so like I feel a little awkward saying this, but I I do prefer no students, so if you could just let them know. And she did so, then the rest of the time it was just the doctor that came in.

Natalie: 35:20

And Dr Rinaldi is funny, she's a little Italian woman and she did two residencies. Actually, she did her residency in Italy and then she did a second residency in the United States. When she came here she is a bit old fashioned, like she kept asking me if I wanted my water broken, because she's like you know, you'll have a baby within the hour if you let me break your water and I'm like thank you, but I'm okay, like I'll just. I remember from the first time that my water breaking caused a pretty intense labor and you know I was. I was chilling so long as I was making progress. I was totally fine with how labor was progressing, didn't need any help, please and thank you. I appreciate the offer, but I'm OK.

Natalie: 36:00

But it was funny because my cervix was kind of towards the back. With how things were. I don't really fully understand what that meant, Other than every cervical check was excruciatingly uncomfortable because I a had to be on my back and then b they had to like dig in there to actually access my cervix and figure out how far along I was. So every time she did a cervical check one of the times she goes I promise you can torture me in the next life. Did you feel like you wanted the cervical?

Angela: 36:32

checks, or do you feel like they were kind of pushing them on you more than you wanted?

Natalie: 36:37

Oh, I definitely. I wanted the cervical checks. I asked for them, I would. So what I did with this labor is we came in, we got settled. They were like, yep, you're definitely in labor.

Natalie: 36:48

They did the first check, definitely in labor. They did the first check. I think it was three centimeters when they initially checked it, which was already progress, because when I came in and my water hadn't broken, they did a cervical check then and I was like barely one centimeter, which I had been two weeks ago. So that I was kind of like, oh, that's a bummer, and that's why I was in denial about being in labor until we came back and got checked in. And then they did the cervical check and I was three centimeters and I was like, okay, so my body is actually doing something now.

Natalie: 37:19

And then I let a few hours go by and there was a shift change and they were like do you want us to do another cervical check? And I said yes. And I said yes and I was at four and I was like, great, but then four is where I stalled out last time. So I was a little nervous about that. So I asked for another cervical check, but I think it was too soon. It was only like an hour or two after that first one and so I was still out of four and that one she she checked and then she did a stretch, which I did not want and that was extremely painful and I did not like that. So like definitely she was kind of like because she was already in there doing a cervical check and she's like I'm just gonna stretch you and then stretch and I was like, did that was awful? I did not appreciate that. But that was the only time that I really felt like I was not listened to or really necessarily given the option to, uh, or I should say, not given the option to say anything different. So that was a little bit frustrating. So we told Scott I was like if they come back in, tell them do not do that again. But fortunately I didn't need to, because every time after that that, because of where I was at mentally every contraction was, I just really focused on relaxing my body into the contractions. If I had had the same one last time and focused more on like learning how to relax my body even through discomfort, that I probably would have successfully had a home birth last time, because I can very clearly identify.

Natalie: 39:07

Because of all the anxiety that I had through my pregnancy, I was not in a relaxed state to begin with. And then, on top of that, even though I had through my pregnancy, I was not in a relaxed state to begin with and then, on top of that, even though I was like excited to have this baby, every contraction was intense and I was tensing up with it and so I was basically fighting my body on what it was trying to do and that ended up really wearing me out because I didn't make much progress, which I mean makes sense. I was fighting myself on it. And then also, because I was fighting myself, I was tiring myself out faster. So that's why I had a super, super long labor and be, just, like you know, didn't end up being able to give birth at home.

Natalie: 39:44

So this time I was just relaxing through every single contraction and I had Scott prepared with ways to help me relax if he noticed me tensing up through them, which came in handy when I got closer to transition. But I mean, this was not a short labor either, but it was so different than last time I slept most of the time I was in labor. I would occasionally have a contraction that was a little more intense that I couldn't sleep through, but for the most part I would, you know, get in a really comfortable position with the peanut ball and I would just snooze for most of it. We watched our online church service while I was laboring, which was hilarious, because the week after everyone was like oh my gosh, I just saw you last week and you were still pregnant and I was like I was still pregnant, but you definitely didn't see me because I was in the hospital. I would remember if I had been here, um, but yeah, so it was just. It was very, very relaxing.

Natalie: 40:48

The they did have me on the monitors more than I would have liked, because he wasn't having enough accelerations for them to be comfortable, taking me totally off, completely, and I kind of advocated a little bit harder for that one, but honestly, it wasn't enough of a discomfort or hindrance that I felt it was really necessary to fight them on, because it still wasn't all the time. It was just like more than I wanted to be, but when I got into transition they wouldn't take me off of them and that Scott was like I thought you were gonna rip that belt off and chuck it out, or like you were so mad about it. Um, but fortunately the the doctor came in as I got closer to pushing, because they tried to put a blood pressure cuff on me and that I was going to rip off. Um, and she was like why are you doing that? We don't need her blood pressure, she's. Thank goodness for that.

Angela: 41:40

Um, but yeah, it was just still Dr Rinaldi that was there at that point.

Natalie: 41:44

Yep, she was the one who ended up delivering we had. So you know, I labored all day. Then I got to transition and I could tell because, well, I could tell because they told me and they could tell because I suddenly got very nasty about everything. I wasn't like horrible, I was just very, um, very adamant about particular things like don't touch me, don't tell me where to go like I'm going to be in this position, do not move me, do not put these things on me, like that, that type of stuff yeah, that's really not being nasty, more like then, it's more just tuning into what you really need in that super important moment in your life, like yeah yeah, absolutely.

Natalie: 42:25

But like with with some of the things, like they did try to put the blood pressure cuff on me the first time while I was in transition and I was not kind about that one. I was like absolutely not take it off right now. Um, and she's like it's okay, you're just in transition, I'm like take it off or I take it off. I do not want this on me right now. But I'm also glad that I had like better prepared Scott this time. I mean he was, he was very educated last time because he did all this, all the same courses that I did. He didn't do as much reading, but you know, I gave him the cliff notes on the reading, so he had most of the same information. But a because he had seen me go through labor before, he was a little bit more prepared. And then B because the course that we did this time had specific lessons that like teacher partner, not just like oh, here's how you be a good support, but here are specific massage techniques that you can try and some women prefer this, some women prefer that. Like here are counter pressure things that you can do for specific spaces in labor, like they're. Like you don't want to use this one in early labor because it's going to close the part of the pelvis that you want to open. But it's good for late labor because you want to open the bottom of the pelvis and so you push this way and that kind of stuff. And that was so helpful for him to just have stuff to do, cause last time with the midwives they gave him stuff to do. But as soon as we got to the hospital they were like sit in this chair, don't move. We don't really want to have to worry about you, we just want to focus on her. We don't want you passing out or anything. Um, this time he was like super hands-on and super involved because we had gone over things ahead of time that I was like I will definitely want you to do that while I'm in labor, um, and so it was really nice because he was able to be proactive and not wait for someone to tell him stuff.

Natalie: 44:11

I will say Eastern Maine was great about the eating food thing. I was really worried that they were gonna try and push me to only eat ice chips and I'm like that's a terrible idea because I'm gonna be hungry because I'm laboring. It takes a lot of effort. But we brought in our own food, especially because I didn't know how long we were gonna be there, and sometimes brought in our own food, especially because I didn't know how long we were going to be there, and sometimes you have access to stuff, sometimes you don't, and I was like, if I have my own food, I don't even have to worry about it, I'm going to eat it whether they like it or not. But they didn't even say anything.

Natalie: 44:38

We had our um, it was the sargento smart snacks that have the, the nuts and the cheese and the dried fruit, perfect for in labor. And then I had my little electrolyte packets mix in with my one water bottle, and then I had my other giant water bottle. That was just water so I could stay super hydrated. And then we had some granola bars and some other stuff and they brought me popsicles. They offered me popsicles while I was in labor, so that was nice too, um.

Natalie: 45:08

But so we got to transition, maybe around four in the afternoon I don't know how long I was in transition, for cause I was not paying attention, obviously and then all of a sudden, like my body just started bearing down all on its own. It was really, really cool that I didn't have to like fight that reflex or anything. And, uh, my nurse, bless her heart, she, the last time they had checked me, which was like, right, as I was going into transition, I was like eight and a half nine-ish, like barely a nine centimeters. So she was I don't know why she was worried about it. She was like, well, you know, I really want to check and make sure you're actually 10 before you start pushing. And I was like, well, you know, I really want to check and make sure you're actually 10 before you start pushing. And I was like, ma'am, I am pushing, I will not be getting on my back, so you can check me. And she's like, well, we can check you right there. And I'm like, no, no, no, you will not be checking me, we're doing this. Like this is happening.

Natalie: 46:05

The same thing happened with Raven, where when I got to 10 centimeters, they were like, well, there's a little lip left, try not to push. But my epidural with her wasn't complete, like I was completely numb on one side but I could still feel a lot on the other side. So I could feel my body like pushing on its own, which a lot of people with an epidural, that doesn't happen. My pushing was definitely not as effective because of the epidural, but I still could feel like the need to push and the urge to push and I was like I'm pushing this baby out whether you like it or not. So, yeah, but with her I didn't care and I thought it's because I spent so much time in the tub. But this time I didn't care either, which was impressive, because he came out at nine pounds, nine ounces and a 14 inch head.

Natalie: 46:53

So were they doing any coaching? Oh yeah, they. They tried to coach my pushing and I was just ignoring them. I like completely tuned them out. I wasn't even it wasn't on purpose, it wasn't like I was trying to ignore them, but I just I was listening to what my body did. I was doing the things I had practiced. I wish I had done a little bit more practice with my breathing, because that was something that I really didn't start to do until very late in my pregnancy. And like I mean, they say it in every video. They're like you need to be practicing these things, you know, at least through your third trimester. Don't leave it until the last week before birth, because once you're in that moment, your body's going to go instinctive and if you don't train this to be your instinct, you're going to lose it. And so that was definitely the case for transition. I lost my my Zen. I should say you know every other one. I was able to really relax through the contractions and all of that. I think in transition I was tensing up a lot more.

Natalie: 47:53

But Scott was really helpful in that where he would just gently like if he saw me clutching my jaw, he would like put his hand on my jaw to remind me to relax it. There were a couple of times that he had to like very firmly verbalize that, because the first couple of times that he like touched my shoulder, touched my face while I was in transition, I was like why are you touching me? He's like relax, I'm reminding you to relax those muscles, just the muscles. You don't have to like your brain can be whatever state you want, but you have to relax the muscles in your body so that your body can do anything. Poor guy who's just trying to help and I'm like, even though that's exactly do what you need to do. Poor guy who was just trying to help and I'm like, even though that's exactly what I told him to do, I was like remind me to relax. So yeah, it does. It gets very, very instinctive and your body just really takes over.

Natalie: 48:43

And the J breathing was the one that I really had not mastered at all. I tried, but maybe not as hard as I should have, because that one can be like. It completely changes the effectiveness of your pushing when you get it right and it allows you to keep breathing while bearing down. So it prevents you from holding your breath and then it also prevents you from losing all of your air. So like if you, if you take a breath and while you're pushing you're exhaling from your chest, you're not like you're splitting your energy between pushing down and pushing out, whereas and if you hold your breath, you can focus all your energy on pushing down but you're also not breathing. So you're causing a lot of tension in your face and blood pressure buildup and all of that stuff. So if you do the J breathing, you can exhale, but you're exhaling through your muscles down. They say kind of like imagine like you're trying to breathe out your bottom instead of your mouth.

Natalie: 49:41

But that one I didn't really get the hang of it because I didn't really discover it until closer to the end of my pregnancy and that I wish I had spent more time practicing because that would have made my pushing more effective. But between that and I did hold my breath sometimes to push it. It worked well enough because I thought I was pushing for quite some time. It turns out I only pushed for 20 minutes and I am glad that I practiced the mindfulness so much because when I got to the ring of fire like that's typically why people pair is because they get to that point and they're ready to be done and it hurts and they push through it, which that's the one moment that you should not push through. Like you, it it sucks, but you need to let them kind of sit there and stretch it out.

Natalie: 50:28

And you know, like, obviously don't fight your contractions. If your contractions are pushing, then push, but if your body is not pushing, then stop. And that's what made me not tear this time is because as soon as my contraction stopped, I stopped pushing and it was that was painful. That part specifically was pain, that part specifically was pain. But, like I, just in my head I just kept going like just wait, just wait, just wait, just wait, just wait until the next contraction came and then I could push and it was funny, a couple of things through transition in my brain all of a sudden, like when I got to a particular point in transition, kind of panic mode took over and my brain was like I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't do this, but I refuse to let that.

Natalie: 51:16

Well, first of all it wouldn't have done anything, because once you hit transition, it's too late to to get any interventions, like you're stuck with it. You got to deal with it now, um, but I I was like stubbornly fighting that and so every time my brain went I can't do this out loud, I was like stubbornly fighting that. And so every time my brain went I can't do this out loud, I was like I can do this. And in my brain I was like I can't do this and out loud I'm like I can do this. So it was probably it seemed weird to the nurse and to Scott or they're like why I mean do what you got to do to get through it, I guess. But it was because I was specifically counteracting what my brain was telling me out loud. I was like reaffirming out loud I can do this, I can do this. And then, you know, I did.

Natalie: 51:55

I made it through transition and then started pushing and then the ring of fire was especially hard because he like went out and then kind of came back in. But I also had again prepared myself for that, where I was like it's not always the first time that they come out, so just like he'll come out when he comes out, just just do what your body tells you to do. And again, I'm so glad that I did that mental preparation. It makes such a difference, especially because when you're prepared to just take each contraction as it comes, you're really not as fixated on the length of labor, total Like yeah, I had a long labor but it didn't feel long to me, partially because I slept through most of it and then partially also because I wasn't so focused on oh my gosh, here's another contraction. Oh my gosh, here's another contraction.

Natalie: 52:48

It was just kind of, you know, riding each wave as it happened, and so it's. It really is like waves in the ocean. It's the difference between fighting the current and riding the current. You know, you can be out there on your little boogie board and you're trying to get out past the waves and you're like fighting each one and it's crashing in your face and it's intense and you get salt water up your nose and into your brain and in your ears and all of that stuff. Your eyeballs are stinging, you know. You feel like you can't breathe or you could just put your body on top of the board, let the waves take you where they go and just float with each one in a world of a different experience. You know, and it's it's very much the same thing with contractions you can fight them or you can ride them, and riding them is so different. And it was really funny.

Natalie: 53:34

When it came to the part of him like coming out it was in my birth plan I was like I want to like feel him as he comes out, I want to touch the head. And so the first time his head came, you know, like partially out there, like do you want to touch it? And I was like I can't do it. But fortunately I got another chance Because, like I said, he kind of went back in and came back out. And the second time they're like okay, his head's there if you want to touch it, and I did. And I'm glad I did Because it's a weird experience, but you know it's a very special experience and it was all like wrinkly and squishy and weird feeling.

Natalie: 54:13

So I was kind of like, but I did, I did it and then he came out and, much like with Raven, once his head came out, his body just kind of like came out right after. And this time it took a little longer for the placenta to come out, I'm sure because I wasn't on Pitocin With her. I was on Pitocin, so I had like one more contraction and the placenta popped right out. We did the delayed cord clamping. They waited until after I delivered the placenta and it stopped pulsing. And that one I had to advocate for, because I heard them say, oh, let's clamp the cord and then, dad, you can cut it. And I said, oh, I want to delay the cord clamping. And they went. Well, it's already been two minutes, Like yeah, no, we're going to wait a bit longer.

Natalie: 54:56

But again, at that point I had it's so crazy, Like how fast those endorphins hit you. One of my friends said recently it's because there's there's really no other experience in life where you go from experiencing excruciating pain to like a light switch it's done, it's over with You're, you have the baby out and you're good to go, and that's really what it was. And then you have like so much clarity and you're just, you know, running on endorphins and we had been in labor for so long. Scott and I were both tired. We'd been there since three in the morning and I was awake well until like 7. Pm when we got transferred over and we got people to check on us and he's like how are you this awake? And I said it's the endorphins baby. Like well, actually, what I said. He said how are you this awake? And I looked at him dead in the eyes and went drugs, the drugs that your body produces. I wasn't wrong.

Natalie: 55:50

It's just not like drugs in the sense you think it's the best kind like, oh my gosh, yeah, so good, totally legal, completely natural, totally good for you, all those things. So and then the two people that we knew that worked labor and delivery we had kind of joked. We were like, oh, maybe we'll get them as one of our nurses. They came on on the shift change right after he had been born and one of them was our nurse and then the other one like popped in to say hi to see how it was. But it was so funny because when he was born, you know, they they after I did some skin to skin, then they were after the cord was cut and all of that, and they were checking on me making sure that my uterus was contracting down and all of that.

Natalie: 56:35

They were like, how big was your other baby? And I said, oh, eight, four. And they said, how big do you think he was? I don't know, eight, seven, like he felt a little bit bigger. But I wasn't really carrying that much differently than I had with her. I mean I was carrying more forward with her. I wasn't really carrying that much differently than I had with her. I mean I was carrying more forward with her. I was more to the side, but like it felt roughly the same size of belly, just in a different direction, and they were like, yeah, he was nine pounds, nine inches, which is huge. I'm like what? And everyone kept joking. They were like, where were you hiding that baby?

Natalie: 57:07

Because your belly did not look like you were getting the baby back, because your belly did not look like he was more what I anticipated going into it, because Scott's mom him and all of his siblings which makes perfect sense. I mean, if you've seen, seen them, they're all very tall human beings. So he and all of his siblings were like nine and a half 10 pounds when they were born. Me and all my siblings siblings were like nine and a half 10 pounds when they were born. Me and all of my siblings were nine, nine and a half pounds Cause my mom was borderline gestational diabetes every time.

Natalie: 57:36

She never actually got it, but she was always borderline Cause it's funny Cause my mom's a very small human but she carried large babies, um, so I anticipated having big babies and then Raven was eight, four, which is respectable, but average, you know. So I thought, huh, maybe, maybe not. But now I think that it's a related to the fact that she was a first baby, and first babies tend to be a little smaller. And then B related to the fact that she had the deficiency, because it prevents her from breaking down, um, long chain and super long chain fat, her from breaking down long chain and super long chain fat. So her body doesn't metabolize as much from food as other babies do. So it's possible that, like, the nutrients she was getting from me just weren't as much and so she wasn't as large of a baby when she was born, whereas he obviously metabolizes fine. Like in one month he went from being nine pounds, nine ounces to, at his last checkup, he was 11, 13, so, like, clearly he uses the food I'm giving him, like he knows what he's doing, um, but, yeah, it was great.

Natalie: 58:42

And as soon as I, like, pushed him out, I, like I said, had that huge rush and I was just going, I did it, I, I did it. I felt like the little engine that could. Were you able to see the beautiful view at that time? Was it still? Oh, my gosh, yes, oh, it was awesome. I had that view throughout my entire labor and there were a couple of times that they came in and they were like let's close the curtains, so it's more relaxing and I was like, don't you dare close that curtain. I am relaxed looking at this view. You know, like the intensity training they have you trained by. They're like go to your happy place, think of a beautiful time. Have someone describe it to you. I didn't need that. I was looking out the window at my happy place. Like that view is stunning, nothing beats it.

Natalie: 59:29

I'm telling you like, if anyone gets the chance, even if you do, like I don't know a tour of the labor and delivery floor. You don't have to actually deliver there, but just like, take a peek in those labor rooms. Stunning view, I love it. Um, and it's so funny because apparently almost universally at most other hospitals, labor and delivery floors like on the second floor. I don't know why, but it is at Maine General and it is at Mayo. I guess I can't really speak to other hospitals, but I know for sure those two. It's on the second floor. You get a nice view of like treetops out your window, but not really a view. But at Eastern Maine it's up on the seventh floor and it is a view you can see like all the way down the Penobscot and it is gorgeous every time of year.

Natalie: 1:00:12

I'm jealous of my mom. She gave birth in Eastern Maine to my brother in the fall. So my dad said I mean she has C-section, so she didn't get to see it during labor, but their recovery room had a great view and, like he said, the fall foliage was just on fire when she gave birth and gorgeous, and I mean that. Having worked there, I can confirm it is beautiful every time of year. But in the winter it's also really pretty because you get the ice on the water and the sun just reflecting off of it and you can watch. There's two bald eagles, a mated pair, that nest right outside the hospital and so you can watch them like circle over top of the river when they're hunting. And yeah, it's just, it's really pretty.

Angela: 1:00:58

So I love it. So what position were you in when you gave birth?

Natalie: 1:01:03

So I labored mostly on all fours, like I did with Raven, and then I could tell towards the end that it was just not as efficient anymore, like it was really efficient to start with, and then it just kind of stopped. So then I switched to sideline and I had Scott hold my leg, because then I could put my knees closer together, which really opens up the bottom of the pelvis and helps baby come out. And that did the trick. That was like a couple more pushes in the sideline position and he was out. I mean, it was more than a couple, it was probably four, but still, when your contractions are that close together, four is really nothing. So yeah, it was awesome and it was. It was such a good feeling and being able to like actually feel all of it was an awesome experience. Yeah.

Angela: 1:01:51

So then, how has your postpartum been going?

Natalie: 1:01:56

It's been going really well. So with Raven I thought I had postpartum anxiety, but with some therapy and further diagnosis I discovered it wasn't really postpartum anxiety, it was preexisting anxiety that was just amplified by the hormones, and so I've been keeping really close tabs on it this time just in case something manifested. But yeah, this time, because the pregnancy went so well and I did not have pre-existing anxiety and again I just, especially towards the end, really aside from my impatience and like being ready to be done, I really kind of hit my stride and was very, very comfortable and prepared and calm about everything. And because of that, like the postpartum has been much, much the same, where I've just been very calm and comfortable and happy and like, obviously there've been challenges, like anytime you bring a new baby into the home, whether it's your first or your fifth, it's going to be, it's going to have its own challenges, but you know nothing that has felt insurmountable or overwhelming. Um, there have definitely been days that are overwhelming, but that's because, you know, I have a toddler who's having meltdowns and then a baby who's feeding off of that toddler and also having meltdowns, and I'm like, ah, but we get through it. You know, sometimes it takes some unhealthy coping with. Uh, you know, we just stick some tv on and plop her in front of it to get some peace and quiet. But, um, for the most part we haven't actually like fallen back on TV as much as I worried that we would, and it hasn't been as difficult of a transition as we anticipated it being.

Natalie: 1:03:42

I think when people say it's harder going from one to two than it is going from zero to one, they mean in like the amount of effort that you have to put forth, because with a single baby there's only so much that you have to do and you can focus your full attention on them and all of that. And then with two babies it's hard because your attention is divided and you know all of that stuff. But for me personally, going from zero to one was a more difficult experience than going from one to two because while the workload has increased and there are like new challenges that I have to figure out how to adapt to, it's the same type of workload. So it's like an easier mental adjustment. For me it's like oh, it's the same stuff, it's just more stuff, whereas going from zero to one was really difficult because it was like learning a whole new identity for myself, where I went from being able to do whatever I wanted with my time for the most part go wherever I wanted.

Natalie: 1:04:42

I was a very I mean I still am a spontaneous person, but spontaneity looks different with kids than it does when you're by yourself. You know, when you're by yourself you could get out of work at 3 PM and be like like I feel like going to Bar Harbor today and hop in that car and drive for an hour to Bar Harbor. You know, swing by Momo's Cheesecake on your way back through Ellsworth. Um, you know, highly recommend if you haven't been there, by the way, the best cheesecake ever, but it will be very overwhelming the first time you go. She has so many flavors you didn't even know it was possible to have that many choices with cheesecake. So good though, oh my gosh.

Angela: 1:05:15

Are they open like 24 hours, don't they?

Natalie: 1:05:17

yes, yes you, so you pay. You pay on the honor system and it's really cool. Everyone respects that because it's the reason that she's able to stay open and stay accessible. So, yeah, it is. I highly recommend going one of my favorite places for sure, and like that used to be a pretty consistent thing is like once a month or once every other month, I would do a whole trip down to Bar Harbor and get cheesecake, and usually I'd go with a friend and we'd like sit. We'd either stop on the way down and sit on the seashore and eat our cheesecake or we'd like stop on the way back up and eat it in the car while we talked about how much we love the ocean and all that stuff.

Natalie: 1:06:01

Um, but now, like, bar harbor isn't just a evening trip or whenever you want trip, it's a whole day trip where you have to like, pack a million diapers. Think about, okay, how are we gonna adjust their naps to either accommodate for while we're out or happen while we're out? Um, you gotta pack a stroller, you gotta pack gear, you gotta, uh, have so much food and snacks for your toddler and, you know, have a nursing cover for being outside with the baby and, um, all this other stuff and you can potentially stop at momo's cheesecake, but you have to like schedule that in because you don't really want to stop when two kids are already having meltdowns in the car and you're like trying to get home. So you know it. Just, it takes a lot more planning, so spontaneity feels a lot less spontaneous. Now spontaneity is like hey, let's, let's walk down to the corner and get some ice cream. You know, not whole. Oh, I have an extra day off. Let me just drive down to Pennsylvania and visit people I haven't seen in a while. Like you can't do that when you have kids. It takes it takes a lot more for things like that to happen.

Natalie: 1:07:11

So yeah, like I was saying, going from zero to one was a bigger adjustment just because of how I lived my life as a person with no children and then versus how I lived my life with children and I don't regret any of it. It's very fulfilling, but it is a huge mental adjustment. And for anyone who's like struggling with the kind of dichotomy of that, the, on the one hand, you know, I'm so grateful to be a mother, I love my children, I'm like so blessed to have this baby, and then, on the other hand, also struggling with a severe sense of, like loss of self and loss of identity and kind of a will I ever get to be that person again? You know, especially in the newborn newborn stage, where you have next to no time to do things for yourself. Like you know, I I really love painting. The problem with painting is it's a lot of setup and it's a lot of cleanup Like it takes, especially oil painting, which is what I do most. It takes time to wash your brushes, especially because you can't just wash it with soap, you have to use like oil-based cleaners to remove the oil paint from your brushes. And you know you have to like prepare your palette and all of this other stuff. And so it's like, will I ever have time to do that kind of thing again?

Natalie: 1:08:30

I highly recommend watching the movie Look Both Ways. It came out right after I or right around the time I gave birth with Raven the first time, and I found it right after I had given birth to her and I felt particularly attacked because the main character's name is Natalie and she's an artist. Her dream is to be a graphic designer, which for a while that was my dream, turns out I don't. I don't like graphic design very much. I I mean, I respect it as an art form, but for me personally it feels kind of restrictive to what I do, whereas I like to be have a little bit more freedom in my art. So that didn't pan out for me as a job, but I digress.

Natalie: 1:09:10

You know, she wants to be a designer and it's really cool because she is at a party in college and she takes a pregnancy test because she's feeling sick and then in one version of the story she gets a positive pregnancy test and in one version she gets a negative pregnancy test. And it follows her life in both directions where the one, she doesn't have a baby and how her life proceeds from there, and then the other, she does have a baby and how her life proceeds from there. And then the other, she does have a baby and how her life proceeds from there. And I love it because it shows it like really accurately, shows the ups and downs of both sides of that and like how her life still had challenges without a baby and she still hit really low lows without a baby and then still ended up like finding herself and finding a dream at the end of that, versus like when she does have the baby and then still ended up like finding herself and finding a dream at the end of that, versus like when she does have the baby.

Natalie: 1:09:59

It does the same thing where it's like, yes, there are huge challenges to having a baby. There's like a huge readjustment to the fact that you're a mom. And when her mom puts it really well in that movie where she says when her mom puts it really well in that movie where she says it's it's hard to adjust to because from now on you will never not be a mom, like you'll never lose that part of your identity. Yeah, your kid might grow up and move out of the house and you're no longer like parenting them actively, but you'll always be their mom and you will always be a mom from like you know, I believe from the moment you get that positive pregnancy test, like you are a mom. Whether you get the chance to mother that baby or not, it's still a part of your identity. You still have a child. You're still a mother to a child.

Natalie: 1:10:46

You know whether or not you get to hold that child and raise that child, which you know is a whole other thing that is heartbreaking, but yeah, you never get to not be a mom, but she goes through the highs and lows of that as well and then still like, finds her identity and finds her voice and like lives a fulfilled life by the end and it's very, it's very emotional and touching and cute and I love that movie and I will shout it from the rooftops like go watch that movie. It's called Look Both Ways, love it. Uh, stars, I think lily reinhardt. Yeah, it's really good. But yeah, I felt I felt a little attacked because they named the main character, natalie, and she's an artist and I was like, okay, this is a little on the nose for me oh my gosh, that's so funny.

Angela: 1:11:27

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go check that out yeah, yeah, I love that movie.

Natalie: 1:11:31

But yeah, the second time around has been a lot easier. I've loved getting to see Raven be a big sister. She loves being a big sister for the most part. Obviously, again, there are ups and downs, there are some rough patches, but it hasn't been nearly as bad as we as, like I was preparing myself for I think we part of it is like we did a lot of work during the pregnancy to kind of prepare her for the fact that there will be a second baby.

Natalie: 1:12:00

Like addressing the baby, telling her the baby's in mama's belly, having her talk to my belly, like interact, say you know, cause we found out what we were having this time. We were like you know, it's your little brother, are you so excited for your little brother? Say hi to little brother, he's's in there. And so she did that. And then she got to come to all of my appointments so she would know. Like the doctor would let her touch the doppler before we use it. And she's like, okay, we're gonna listen to the baby now. Now, every time we go to a doctor's office she's like mama, listen baby. I'm like, yeah, we're. I mean, we are going to listen to the baby. But but it's, it's this baby, it's your brother. That's now outside of me. We're not listening to him in my belly anymore going to his appointments. So yeah, it's been. It's been lovely and just a wonderful experience.

Angela: 1:12:48

Wow. So now as a final question, after both of your birth experiences, now overall, if you were to give advice to someone who's expecting, or even new parents, what would sort of the biggest thing be for you that you'd want to share?

Natalie: 1:13:04

I would say I mean two things. One is educate, educate, educate, educate. Take as many classes as you can find. There's so much stuff on YouTube like free education. Watch those videos, look up birth videos, look up new parent videos. Especially when you're feeling the nesting instinct and you want to like buy all the baby things, please go and watch those videos. Where they're like here's a list of things I would never buy for my baby, and those were really helpful breakdowns because a lot of them are expensive products and they're like here's why it tends to get recommended and here's why I wouldn't use it or why we did use it and it didn't work or whatever else. So it helps you kind of get a better perspective on what you need, what you may want, and then what you want to avoid. And then same with like birth videos you can find.

Natalie: 1:13:56

Just look up positive birth video on YouTube and there will be so many blogs that come up. Some of them are all natural, some of them are epidural. There was one I saw that was like a positive birth video that she ended up having to have an episiotomy because he was like stuck in the birth canal and was not coming out and heart rate was decelerating really, really quickly. So they like did an episiotomy and got the baby out, which was crazy I had never. Obviously like it doesn't doesn't show you because that would get taken down off of YouTube, but you know, you're like there with them and it was just so interesting because I had never encountered that before, like someone who's had an episiotomy. You hear about them and you're like I definitely want to avoid that. But yeah, so, being able to watch all of those and like, oh, positive C-section videos, they're just really encouraging.

Natalie: 1:14:50

To put you in the right headspace of even if my birth doesn't happen the way that I want it to, it's okay, and that would I say would would be the second thing. But I guess more the overarching thing that I would say to both expecting parents and brand new parents is if it doesn't go the way you expect it to, it's okay. Like you know, there are so many more days, so many more hours. Two, it's okay. Like you know, there are so many more days, so many more hours, so many more minutes that you that things can go differently and that you can change things. You know, maybe you had an idea of the type of parent that you were going to be.

Natalie: 1:15:26

But then maybe you discover that either you still have some stuff from, like, your own childhood that you need to unlearn, because even if you have like the perfect list of things that your parents did wrong and you will never do, you don't think about the fact that they still modeled those behaviors to you and so, instinctively, you are going to repeat those behaviors unless you do a lot of work to undo them, like I've had to learn. The hard way is, even if I say, oh, I'm never going to be this type of parent, if that's the type of parent you experienced, then your instinct is still going to be to exhibit those behaviors, even if you hated them. So, like you know, do some unlearning, give yourself some grace. You see children, or you know, like my youngest sister is adopted, scott's two youngest siblings are adopted. You see kids go through the foster system and like, yeah, they come out with baggage for sure, because they go through a very broken system, but at the same time they are so resilient and they like bounce back from that, especially when they're little. So like, yeah, maybe your, your toddler, did something and you yelled at them. And you shouldn't have yelled at them, you should have addressed it calmly, but you just kind of snap, give yourself some grace for that. It's okay, like that one time yelling at them is not gonna make them think you're a horrible parent or make them stop loving you or stop trusting you, like especially.

Natalie: 1:16:50

I think the biggest thing with parenting is accountability, like own it when you've done something wrong. And even when they're young and they don't really necessarily understand the concept of like apologies or forgiveness, still take the time to sit down and be like I'm sorry, I yelled at you, I got frustrated, I shouldn't have done that. Even if they don't necessarily understand what any of that means. Like setting that pattern and that foundation will be what builds their trust for you, not that one time that you yelled at them. So yeah, with all of it, just just give yourself grace, hold it loosely and remember that it's okay if it doesn't go exactly the way you expect. You'll learn, you'll adjust, you'll grow. Yeah, just educate yourself. That's. That's important. Having the resources in order to grow is is is vital, but so long as you have the resources and you're putting in the work, then it absolutely can happen and will happen.

Angela: 1:17:45

Yeah, I totally agree. It's super, super important. Well, thank you so much, natalie, for sharing your story and coming back as a guest again on the podcast. Yeah, my pleasure, it's been so much fun. And that's the end of another episode of the my Main Birth podcast. Thank you for joining me and listening.

Angela: 1:18:07

If you're looking to document your birth story or if you're interested in doula support for your upcoming birth, head over to my website, mymainbirthcom, and check out my packages. I am a certified professional birth photographer and an experienced doula, and I offer in-person services to families throughout the state of Maine, as well as virtual birth coaching worldwide. I want to invite you to grab my top free resource for newly pregnant moms. It's called 37 questions to ask your care provider Whether you've already established care or if you're in the process of interviewing new providers. This is for you. Not only are you going to get the questions to ask, but I also share how to assess their answers and the major red flags that you should be looking for. So go, grab that. It's at mymainbirthcom slash download. Thank you again for tuning in and I look forward to bringing you more amazing birth stories. Don't forget to subscribe and leave me a review and I'll see you back here again next week.